Naviter Support Forum

Hi Andrej,

About the Italian airspaces, I have got the documents from ENAV. Now that my SeeYou demo version is expired, how can I create the SeeYou airspace files? Is there any editor available?

Also, I think that the main issue isn't to write down the first edition, but taking care about updates form real world. Which is the required update frequency (or delay)?

Thanks for your answer.
Mauro Santandrea

OKl, let me try...

Mauro, How's it going with the Italian airspace database ?

Hi Simon,

I finished to insert all the class C and D airspace data into a worksheet, and I found a way to calculate the tangent points when connecting two circles with lines on the Earth surface. Unfortunately, the ENAV documents don't use only lines and arches for defining the airspaces. With this method I can revert the circles-and-tangents format into a commonly used lines-and-arches format.

Now I have to write the code for converting  the data in the required format. I think to release a beta version within the next week, with the C and D airspaces only. In this way I can easily manage the updates.

The next step is to insert all data about dangerous zones, such as military firing zones, etc.
With the worksheet system, this should be quite quick.

Regards,
Mauro

Superb Mauro,
It sounds like you'll produce a masterpiece. Very much looking forward to seeing the results of your hard work.
BRGDS.
Simon

Hello Simon,

the time has come! :-) The first Italian Airspace release, with C and D class CTRs is ready.

When possible, I always used the data straight from ENAV documents. But sometime these documents give the information in a not-so-easy-to-program way. For example, when an airpace is defined as two circles joined by tangents, I had to calculate the points of tangency.
To tell the truth, when I compare the coordinates coming from my computations with those from DAFIF data (e.g.: EuroSpace), I can see a little difference (a few seconds).

I used a WGS84 ellipsoid model, but I don't know how DAFIF are calculated, so I can't tell the reason of this difference. If anybody can explain how DAFIF are calculated, and the reason of that difference, I would be happy to hear.

Because of that difference, I would like to warn all the potential users: even if I put the maximum care in copying the data from ENAV documents and in programming the data conversion macros, this does NOT mean that my document is error-free. It is given without warranties, and can be used "AT YOUR OWN RISK".

Anyway, I also compared my work with ENAV maps, and it looks OK. The file I produced is in OpenAir format. How can I send it to you?


P.S.: many thanks to Ed Williams for his great work, from which I derived my worksheet.

I would like to see this masterpiece.

Ehm... Thanks, but is not -yet-  a masterpiece.... Actually, is a beta version, with only C and D CTR zones.
I'm adding other kind of zones such as ATZ, dangerous, forbidden, restricted, military firing zones, etc.
As soon as the job is finished, I'll post it here.

Anyway, I sent you my file, just for having a look. Please, feel free to send me any suggestion.

Ciao.

More spaces are available.

I added Dangerous zones, Prohibited zones, Temporarily Segregated Areas, Military ATZ and Military Firing Zones.

My file still lacks of ATZ (which are inside the CTRs), TMAs and Airways, but it should be useful anyway for free flight, especially for hang gliding and paragliding.

A question for experts: mostly, the Italian CTRs are  "D"  class zones, but some of them are "C" class and Milan Malpensa airspace is defined as "A"  class. In the Airspace file format, if I define the CTR as "CTR", it is always shown as "D" class. If I define it as "A" or "C", it is not shown as CTR.
Should I define the CTRs as "CTR" or as A, C and D zones? 

The pre-release is available via e-mail: mausan66_AT_tiscali.it  Because of my work I'm  traveling often so, if you don't receive an immediate answer, please be patient...

Ciao

From my point of view it makes more sense to see very clear that an airspace is a CTR and I have to call on the Tower-frequency to get a clearance (there is no difference if the airspace class is C, D or something else).

Hi, Pete

Thanks for your help.

I'm a paraglider pilot so I'm not familiar with tower communication procedures. To me every kind of airspace is just something to keep out from. 
Let's take it as a standard. I'll change my file as you say.

About the Italian Airspace file, I'm actually working for inserting the National Parks data (this looks like the most complex part of the job).
Should I post the part of the file I did until now? In affirmative case, how I can do it?

Regards,
Mauro